All the wildcats (which basically include domestic cats) are very closely related based on my understanding. Even the whole box thing is related to a lot of wildcats having a liking for caves.
even as a kid we all liked little forts and boxes etc, which is itself interesting. snow caves were awesome; makes me wonder if it's a primeval instinct somehow.
This particular one was actually being kept in a house because someone confused it for a "pretty housecat". After a while, the owner realized it didn't want to be tamed and contacted someone for help.
Also, it's the only known one in existence. Hard to start a breeding program unless they find more.
FTFA: "The man took the animal home, believing it to be a domestic breed. But after about a year of living with the clearly wild animal, he realized it would be better off at a sanctuary."
There's a YouTube (and other) channel out there about a guy and his (I use the possessive with caveats) coyote (named Weave). His motto is "Anything can be a pet if you don’t mind getting bit."
I think the lady that got mauled to death in 2018 at the lion preserve that guy works at might disagree with you if she hadn’t been y’know, mauled to death by a lion.
People also get mauled by dogs yet we don't consider that to mean that they can't be domesticated. A domesticated animal is still an animal and if its big enough to kill you can coommon enough then some people will be killed by it.
On the Craigslist homepage (on desktop) there is a gray navbar on the left side of the screen. That area has a calendar and some group of links below it. The second group of links below the calendar includes "best-of-craigslist" link.
I like that the Craigslist site design is utilitarian and hasn't changed much over the years. The downside is that stuff like this can hide in plain sight.
>"I'd be getting scared when a cat reaches the 20kg threshold" - most likely even 10kg cat will shred you before you could blink. They're insanely fast and surprisingly strong for size. Furry explosives they are
An angry cat in full fight mode will absolutely put a human in hospital, and the bites and scratches are teeming with potentially deadly bacteria.
They may be unique - a super-successful predator that has persuaded a more dominant species to look after it by looking cute and feeling soft and making relaxing noises.
my cat at its peak weight is about 8kg, and that's the size that i'd get a bit nervous around if i didn't know it's a tame housecat that runs away at sight of a mouse...
Cats are not really domesticated. I've heard various terms but semi-domesticated probably serves. They're very adaptable but not pack animals. You're sort of safe with house cats because they're small. You get less safe as the body weight goes up the scale.
It’s funny to hear they are not pack animals. I’m sure that is technically the case, especially in the wild, but my house cats definitely cling to me and follow me around like I am their leader. They groom/fight to try to establish a hierarchy below me, and when my partner comes home from work immediately switch allegiance to her, who they clearly see as the dominant mammal in the house.
They don’t go outside (they can’t really, it’s too busy by the road here and they’d decimate the wildlife, but I live with it because ultimately we’re doing them a huge favor by giving them a home, post-rescue) so I am sure that has something to do with it. Perhaps infantilism is keeping them in this pack headspace? But even then my mother’s cat — rural, murderous, tough tabby tom — treats her like a god and the rest of us as an annoyance.
As I wrote, they're adaptable. But there's a difference between true pack animals with an established hierarchy and being solitary but being open to other cats and species. Certainly, some cats are more pack-like (lions) and others are, or are more open to, being largely solitary.
I have 2 cats that are sisters. They have a very interesting dynamic. There isn't a fixed dominant sibling, they switch back and forth.
They antagonise each-other most of the time, but they also support each other in times of stress. If one goes to the vet and the other doesn't, the initial reaction is hissing and being a dick. Then, after a few minutes, it's licking and comforting.
I don't like to anthropomorphise too much, but they definitely look out for each-other. Equally, they definitely annoy each-other.
Domestic cats, are pack animals under some conditions.
Those and lions are the only cats known that don't mind to tolerate friends and non relatives around in their territories, cats clearly enjoy the company, form hierarchies and share food. Hyaenas and mongooses are related with cats and definitely social also. Lingsangs on the other way, are solitary.
My newest cat started as a stray. Cautious around humans, but not feral. He was hanging around a lot, so of course I started giving him food because I’m a sucker that way. He disappeared for a couple months, then showed up injured from a fight one day, so we took him to the hospital and ended up keeping him in the garage for a few days to recover. We also did the usual due diligence to locate an owner.
The rest, of course, is history. Now he’s a big 20lb goober of a cat who is positively enamored with my wife. The feeling is mutual.
There was a farm nearby where a mother cat died and all but two kittens died from hunger afterwards. We adopted one, my wife fed the kitten (which was way underage for adopting) with bottle.
Now she has been with us for years. She’s very loyal to me, dismissive to aggressive to anyone else. Not sure why me and not my wife, but hey :)
She basically sleeps next to me all the time, both when I work from home or at night. She’s 14 now, no medical issues.
I've watched a lot of horror shows that had no effect on me. But this one wasn't a horror show, it was for real. I found it very disturbing. I couldn't believe what I was watching.
If they do not have a developed prefrontal cortex acting as a filter from instinct to action, they will be nice or calm for a long time - until the whim occurs and they will act violently. Maybe just for a fraction of a second. And at that point, their strength and natural weapon will make a whole difference.
I remember seeing a wildcat in a sanctuary in Costa Rica with a similar story (the kittens looked like housecat kittens, so someone adopted them, but the adult cat's behavior was different enough to be really challenging). I've been trying to remember the exact species I saw there (maybe an oncilla?), but apparently there are several kinds of wildcat fairly easily mistaken for housecats as kittens.
I think not all of them categorically refuse to be pets, but they're noticeably more aggressive and less affectionate compared to housecats.
Unfortunately while people are going wild as if someone found a never-before-seen cat, this is actually more “after genetic analysis we now know that the tiger cats that everyone already knew about in Bolivia are actually a different species to the ones in Brazil”.
But that’s not very exciting so people and news outlets seem to be running with the story as if nobody had ever seen one before.
> This particular one was actually being kept in a house because someone confused it for a "pretty housecat". After a while, the owner realized it didn't want to be tamed and contacted someone for help.
I mean, the dude tried to feed it "noodles, rice, and eggs" so I'm not sure if he'd be able to tame my very own house cat, even starting from the house cat's current stage of being entirely tamed.
That's not always the case. Some feral cats from colonies that are TNRed are found to be very receptive to humans and instead of returned sometimes offered for adoption instead of returned (the R in TNR)
However these come from a centuries-long bloodline of house cats of course. A species that's never been domesticated is very different.
The trim-color house cats refers to all calicos... calicos are white spotted tortoiseshell cats. The "is orange or black" is a X linked gene, so you can have XoXb... and then the x chromosome inactivation kicks in and some groups of cells are activated orange and some are activated black.
But (not white) spots and variations of color get into things like the Agouti gene ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agouti_coloration_genetics ). A tabby cat (black and tan, or orange and darker orange) has no sex linked characteristics.
Female orange tabby cats are less common than males though, for much the same reason. They have to get the orange genes from both parents otherwise they are just calico.
The same is true of black cats, the other way around. There are fewer orange (or black) female cats because female cats have another option of coloring - tortoise shell (no spots) or calico (with spots). Another way of phrasing it, half of the male cats are orange, the other half are black - female cats have a third option.
Many years ago I met someone who had trained his two housecats to guard the house (I am not sure what that entails). He also had two great big dogs similarly trained. For my safety he would not let any of the animals near me when I visited, but he said the cats scared him more than the dogs did.
One might argue that a guard dog may be inherently easier to bribe with a treat, or cower with bluster. A trained attack cat is a far scarier proposition, given the speed, sharpness, and number of 'utility knives' they have at the ready. Also, the dog is likely to bluster and warn you. The cat, not so much. Just go for your face.
In my youth I witnessed a smallish adult puma (mountain lion) successfully harvest a nearly adult cow elk while I was hiding. I was also hunting, but focused on a bull elk somewhat further from me. It was astonishing the speed and total quantity of violence that an 80-100lb cat delivered in only a few seconds on nearly 500lbs of prey. The cat had an alomost perfect attack angle, and the combination of slash, grip, puncture, and throttle toppled the cow elk, and it ran out of resistance in very short order. I had not even seen the puma before the attack started, and I expect a trained attack housecat would practically appear out of nowhere - from behind a couch or a curtain or off the top of a refrigerator, and it would become an 'I need stitches' situation too easily.
Its probably a good thing that most housecats are pretty much impossible to train beyond 'use a litterbox' and 'stay off the kitchen counters', if even that.
> Its probably a good thing that most housecats are pretty much impossible to train beyond 'use a litterbox' and 'stay off the kitchen counters', if even that.
My cat is very well trained to have his harness put on, since he knows it means going outside. He'll jump on the stool and give me a "hurry up already" look and a meow if I don't move fast enough.
The first time I put it on was not so... inviting, though it was a great impression of a Tasmanian devil.
As a trail runner in mountain lion country, you’re scaring me . I’ve never seen one in person and I do hope to see one, one day. But not like you’ve described!
My cousin, D. used to work in a National Park and had an international intern worker C. who decided to walk to work every morning through the park. D. had warned her to be cautious of mountain lions in that area. One morning D. was driving to work and saw her walking and not very far behind her a mountain lion making a 'stalk' approach and D. was able to get her attention and direct her attention to the mountain lion. C. hurried to D's car to ride the rest of the way to work and decided to accept the standing offer or a ride to work.
If you choose to trail run in mountain lion country, a bell may scare off bears, but may have the opposite effect for mountain lions. Stay aware, don't wear headphones or zone out on the trail.
I have seen three separate stalk and harvest events, the cow elk was my first and closest. My second was a wild burro colt. The the third was an old javelina (collared peccary). The second was by far the scariest, as the puma actually bit over the mouth and nose of the colt and suffocated it.
Fear is the correct emotion with regards to these wild animals. If you want to see one, the Arizona Sonora Desert Museum (really a zoo, in spite of the name) is the best and safest way I know about. I would never willingly try to find one in the wild unless i had a hunting permit for one, and I'm not inclined to do that.
> And they said, ‘I don’t know! My grandpa called it tilcayo, so I call it tilcayo.
I'm curious if the locals knew it was distinct from other similar species, e.g. Oncilla/L. tigrinus, or if tilcayo is the locals' name for a broader set of 2+ visually similar species?
The wiki article on it says it was known to locals. I think the problem is that they kept describing tilcayo, and everyone who wasn't there but was listening said "Oh that sounds exactly like an oncilla. must be a second name or something."
Yeah that's what I'm curious about. "Known to locals" is very vague, and there are a lot of situations that could fit that description. The situation you mention is probably the most reasonable concrete interpretation, but my guess is that there was a game of telephone from locals -> scientists -> journalists -> wiki, and any nuance we could read into has been lost.
Since this cat is Bolivian, they would be jaguar spots, rather than leopard ones.
The conquistadors referred to the jaguars as "tigers" - they certainly aren't lions - and that custom stuck around for long enough for this to become a tiger cat!
> when the researchers compared complete genomes from 38 individuals across the Leopardus genus, the results showed that not only was L. tilcayo different from the other tiger cat species, but it had diverged from them around 1.4 million years ago—an evolutionary distance comparable to that between modern lions and extinct cave lions.
So around 2.8 million divergence-years. Going by wikipedia, the divergence between lions and cave lions is much less:
> Genetic analysis of ancient DNA has revealed that while closely related, it was a distinct species genetically isolated from the modern lion (Panthera leo), with the genetic divergence between the two species estimated at 500,000 to 1 million years ago.
Theoretically, that's anywhere from 18% to 71% of the divergence. (The same page also notes that fossils of this species can be about 700,000 years old, which is philosophically interesting in combination with a divergence date of 500,000 years ago.) These are "comparable" in the sense that any two numbers can be compared, but it's not something you would usually say when one of the numbers is 50% larger than the other one. Even less so when it's 400% larger.
I've heard that my whole life in the US. I think my dad taught it to me when I was really young, because he loves cats and our neighbors across the street had some outdoor cats.
I think it has become common, but I never heard it until a few years ago. Now it's seemingly everywhere. When I was a kid, it was just "Here kitty kitty" or making a clicking noise with your tongue or something.
> making a clicking noise with your tongue or something
I still do that today, and it works better than pspspspsps. When I was young, if my cat was outside on the porch I could click my tongue and he'd come running from a half block away. What a good kitty he was.
I'm from Liverpool (70s/80s/90s), and of course I've heard "here kitty" but "pspsps" equally as common during my time in London (90s/00s), Cornwall(10s/20s), etc.
I always thought "pspsps" was a shortened form of "here pussy, pussy, pussy".
Well it seems everyone uses that! Thanks guys, I had no idea and this is so interesting to know. Now I wonder if someone has made some kind of study about it. I'll go looking.
A fun book is Bad Magic by Stephan Zielinski. Kind of an awkward one to find since it's a common title from a while back (2004) at the very start of urban fantasy... and the author didn't appear to have written anything else.
At one point in the book, several of the characters are in South America looking for a jaguar. They ask the synesthetic mage of their group (each character has a different magical background)...
“Got anything to call a jaguar?”
Rider purses his lips. “Well … there is one incantation. But I’m not sure it’ll work. Even the most skilled thaumaturges can’t pull it off more than a quarter of the time.”
Sturgeon shrugs. “May as well try it, Al.”
Rider nods. “Okay. Be quiet, everybody.” He rolls his head on his neck, holds up his arms. Takes several deep breaths. Opens his mouth. Intones, “Here, kitty kitty kitty … here, kitty…”
Chloe throws a clot of mud in his face as Rider dissolves into whoops of laughter. Everybody shakes their heads in disgust and they troop off into the green.
I wonder how many different species of cat are just called "cats" in the local language of wherever they're found?
We have just got normal house cats, that we call cats. They're very cuddly and they're great for keeping the mice under control.
Somewhere in the forests of deepest Borneo is a civilisation only recently reached by primitive Westerners, who don't know how to make fire and cook food using only sticks and rocks, and who cannot tell the difference between the blackish-blue berries around 15mm that are good to eat and the blueish-black berries around 16mm that are spectacularly poisonous, and only know things like how to make jet aircraft and rifles and the Rolleiflex 2.8FX camera.
Wandering around their village, high in the mountains, are cats the size of Galloway bulls, terrifying looking things, teeth the size of cucumbers.
"Oh those? Yes, we call those 'cats'. They're very cuddly, and they're great for keeping the feral hogs under control."
I don't understand how they're different species from others. By what definition of species are they different species, as opposed to (say) subspecies?
> A genetic analysis of 38 cats from South and Central America, including 26 individuals in the Leopardus tigrinus species complex, revealed that the tigrinus complex consists of five distinct species, including L. tilcayo, which is believed to have split off from other Leopardus species over 1.4 million years ago.[5] The study incorporated genetic material from previously unsampled tiger cats in the Guianas region, near where L. tigrinus was originally described in 1775. Jonas Lescroart, an evolutionary ecologist at the University of Antwerp, and co-lead author of the study called it "the most complete genetic study yet" of tiger cats.
The same that they use for the rest of the already known tiger cat species?! This one diverged from its closest relatives 1.3 million years ago. There are other tiger cat species that diverged later than that. Read the paper if you want to know more. You sound like there’s a >epsilon probability you, a random HN reader, found a gotcha in a paper by the experts of the field because you’re so smart that you know that the definition of "species" is sometimes fluid. Great job, I’m sure the authors don’t know that.
Could you maybe be a little bit more charitable than snarky? "Just read the paper" is not helpful when the paper is like 50 pages. It's not like I know what makes the other cats different species either. Nobody is trying to "gotcha" the researchers here, I'm just trying to understand what makes the cats a different species vs. a subspecies. We all know the definitions are fluid and I've heard of a couple in the past but I've never heard of one that solely looks at DNA divergence, so I'm pretty clueless and trying to learn something here. If you know the answer, this is not the way to share it.
It's Leopardus tilcayo aka 'tilcayo tiger cat' and it's very cute. Wikipedia doesn't have a page dedicated to it yet.
Bonus pics: https://www.newscientist.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/09/SEI_...
https://media.zenfs.com/en/live_science_953/73a4cafd69e9e863...
https://media.zenfs.com/en/live_science_953/1fea354ba7a8db69...
https://thepeninsulaqatar.com/get/maximage/20260917_17896627...
Looks like a house cat, I am betting it's a matter of months before someone starts selling the crossbreds, like they do with Bengal.
Also, they're only 3-4 lbs!
All the wildcats (which basically include domestic cats) are very closely related based on my understanding. Even the whole box thing is related to a lot of wildcats having a liking for caves.
even as a kid we all liked little forts and boxes etc, which is itself interesting. snow caves were awesome; makes me wonder if it's a primeval instinct somehow.
All of a cat's senses and weapons face forward. It makes purfect sense to have its back protected from an attack from behind.
Let's see if it (or crossbreeds) can be tamed.
This particular one was actually being kept in a house because someone confused it for a "pretty housecat". After a while, the owner realized it didn't want to be tamed and contacted someone for help.
Also, it's the only known one in existence. Hard to start a breeding program unless they find more.
> Let's see if it (or crossbreeds) can be tamed.
Clearly you are not a cat person ... the question is not if it can be tamed, but how quickly it can tame the humans around it ... ;-)
I mean, taming animals is trivial. Look at the lion whisperer. People before that thought that lions are always wild.
Some animals are just harder to tame and remain ferocious more than others. But behaviour of animals is adaptable and most animals learn.
I mean, taming animals is trivial.
FTFA: "The man took the animal home, believing it to be a domestic breed. But after about a year of living with the clearly wild animal, he realized it would be better off at a sanctuary."
There's a YouTube (and other) channel out there about a guy and his (I use the possessive with caveats) coyote (named Weave). His motto is "Anything can be a pet if you don’t mind getting bit."
I think the lady that got mauled to death in 2018 at the lion preserve that guy works at might disagree with you if she hadn’t been y’know, mauled to death by a lion.
https://edition.cnn.com/2018/02/28/africa/woman-killed-lion-...
People also get mauled by dogs yet we don't consider that to mean that they can't be domesticated. A domesticated animal is still an animal and if its big enough to kill you can coommon enough then some people will be killed by it.
The only reason my house cat has not murdered me is because he is 4kg, and I'm not. He loves me though.
My cat always looked at me like "if only you were smaller..."
I'd be getting scared when a cat reaches the 20kg threshold. I'm about 90kg, so thats a 4.5x ratio :)
Cats are the perfect killing machines (apart from maybe sharks) :)
There's a bobcat that lives around here. He's on my porch now and then, and I also see its tracks in the snow.
It doesn't look like it wants to be petted. I stay clear.
Many people don't know that Craigslist has a "best of" which includes this (relevant) post that makes me laugh every time I read it:
https://www.craigslist.org/about/best/ric/6881185958.html
Yep, a bobcat. But much smaller than the one around here.
omg WHAT
Where do you find this?!!??! This is GOLD!
On the Craigslist homepage (on desktop) there is a gray navbar on the left side of the screen. That area has a calendar and some group of links below it. The second group of links below the calendar includes "best-of-craigslist" link.
https://www.craigslist.org/about/best/all
I like that the Craigslist site design is utilitarian and hasn't changed much over the years. The downside is that stuff like this can hide in plain sight.
Brillian! Thank you! I love Craigslist and am so glad that it's still around and hasn't been "modernized"
>"I'd be getting scared when a cat reaches the 20kg threshold" - most likely even 10kg cat will shred you before you could blink. They're insanely fast and surprisingly strong for size. Furry explosives they are
An angry cat in full fight mode will absolutely put a human in hospital, and the bites and scratches are teeming with potentially deadly bacteria.
They may be unique - a super-successful predator that has persuaded a more dominant species to look after it by looking cute and feeling soft and making relaxing noises.
my cat at its peak weight is about 8kg, and that's the size that i'd get a bit nervous around if i didn't know it's a tame housecat that runs away at sight of a mouse...
See also "why you should never put a chimp and a little person in the same room" by Penn Gillette
Cats are not really domesticated. I've heard various terms but semi-domesticated probably serves. They're very adaptable but not pack animals. You're sort of safe with house cats because they're small. You get less safe as the body weight goes up the scale.
It’s funny to hear they are not pack animals. I’m sure that is technically the case, especially in the wild, but my house cats definitely cling to me and follow me around like I am their leader. They groom/fight to try to establish a hierarchy below me, and when my partner comes home from work immediately switch allegiance to her, who they clearly see as the dominant mammal in the house.
They don’t go outside (they can’t really, it’s too busy by the road here and they’d decimate the wildlife, but I live with it because ultimately we’re doing them a huge favor by giving them a home, post-rescue) so I am sure that has something to do with it. Perhaps infantilism is keeping them in this pack headspace? But even then my mother’s cat — rural, murderous, tough tabby tom — treats her like a god and the rest of us as an annoyance.
As I wrote, they're adaptable. But there's a difference between true pack animals with an established hierarchy and being solitary but being open to other cats and species. Certainly, some cats are more pack-like (lions) and others are, or are more open to, being largely solitary.
I have 2 cats that are sisters. They have a very interesting dynamic. There isn't a fixed dominant sibling, they switch back and forth.
They antagonise each-other most of the time, but they also support each other in times of stress. If one goes to the vet and the other doesn't, the initial reaction is hissing and being a dick. Then, after a few minutes, it's licking and comforting.
I don't like to anthropomorphise too much, but they definitely look out for each-other. Equally, they definitely annoy each-other.
Domestic cats, are pack animals under some conditions.
Those and lions are the only cats known that don't mind to tolerate friends and non relatives around in their territories, cats clearly enjoy the company, form hierarchies and share food. Hyaenas and mongooses are related with cats and definitely social also. Lingsangs on the other way, are solitary.
I have never felt safer around any other animal than a 11 kg Maine Coon that I happened to share a couple of years of my life with
My main coon is over 10kg and is basically harmless
My newest cat started as a stray. Cautious around humans, but not feral. He was hanging around a lot, so of course I started giving him food because I’m a sucker that way. He disappeared for a couple months, then showed up injured from a fight one day, so we took him to the hospital and ended up keeping him in the garage for a few days to recover. We also did the usual due diligence to locate an owner.
The rest, of course, is history. Now he’s a big 20lb goober of a cat who is positively enamored with my wife. The feeling is mutual.
There was a farm nearby where a mother cat died and all but two kittens died from hunger afterwards. We adopted one, my wife fed the kitten (which was way underage for adopting) with bottle.
Now she has been with us for years. She’s very loyal to me, dismissive to aggressive to anyone else. Not sure why me and not my wife, but hey :)
She basically sleeps next to me all the time, both when I work from home or at night. She’s 14 now, no medical issues.
A tamed lion ripped the face off of Melanie Griffith.
I still need to watch that movie, I feel obligated to see it after so many people suffered so many injuries while filming it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roar_(film)#Injuries_and_set_d...
I've watched a lot of horror shows that had no effect on me. But this one wasn't a horror show, it was for real. I found it very disturbing. I couldn't believe what I was watching.
And you'd think Tippi Hedren would have learned not to go around wild, untamed animals after what her character wrnt through in The Birds!
I missed that connection!
> always wild
If they do not have a developed prefrontal cortex acting as a filter from instinct to action, they will be nice or calm for a long time - until the whim occurs and they will act violently. Maybe just for a fraction of a second. And at that point, their strength and natural weapon will make a whole difference.
I remember seeing a wildcat in a sanctuary in Costa Rica with a similar story (the kittens looked like housecat kittens, so someone adopted them, but the adult cat's behavior was different enough to be really challenging). I've been trying to remember the exact species I saw there (maybe an oncilla?), but apparently there are several kinds of wildcat fairly easily mistaken for housecats as kittens.
I think not all of them categorically refuse to be pets, but they're noticeably more aggressive and less affectionate compared to housecats.
What do you mean it's the only one known? It got the name because locals called it that way. Locals will not call things they don't normally see.
Yeah it’s not the only one known.
Unfortunately while people are going wild as if someone found a never-before-seen cat, this is actually more “after genetic analysis we now know that the tiger cats that everyone already knew about in Bolivia are actually a different species to the ones in Brazil”.
But that’s not very exciting so people and news outlets seem to be running with the story as if nobody had ever seen one before.
Locals are not trained zoologists, I suppose.
There are almost identical animals from different species in the area. The scientific term is an species complex.
> This particular one was actually being kept in a house because someone confused it for a "pretty housecat". After a while, the owner realized it didn't want to be tamed and contacted someone for help.
I mean, the dude tried to feed it "noodles, rice, and eggs" so I'm not sure if he'd be able to tame my very own house cat, even starting from the house cat's current stage of being entirely tamed.
The "owner" clearly hasn't interacted with real cats.
If you don't raise them with humans since they are born, they can't be tamed.
That's not always the case. Some feral cats from colonies that are TNRed are found to be very receptive to humans and instead of returned sometimes offered for adoption instead of returned (the R in TNR)
However these come from a centuries-long bloodline of house cats of course. A species that's never been domesticated is very different.
I believe that tri-colour house cats are all female. This is a tri-colour male.
Spots are different.
The trim-color house cats refers to all calicos... calicos are white spotted tortoiseshell cats. The "is orange or black" is a X linked gene, so you can have XoXb... and then the x chromosome inactivation kicks in and some groups of cells are activated orange and some are activated black.
But (not white) spots and variations of color get into things like the Agouti gene ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agouti_coloration_genetics ). A tabby cat (black and tan, or orange and darker orange) has no sex linked characteristics.
For a deep dive into the genetics of Agouti and how that influences cat fur colors, http://messybeast.com/genetics-agouti-and-corin.htm
I very much appreciate the correction, thank you.
Female orange tabby cats are less common than males though, for much the same reason. They have to get the orange genes from both parents otherwise they are just calico.
The same is true of black cats, the other way around. There are fewer orange (or black) female cats because female cats have another option of coloring - tortoise shell (no spots) or calico (with spots). Another way of phrasing it, half of the male cats are orange, the other half are black - female cats have a third option.
Side bit - the wiki page for X chromosome inactivation shows a picture of a tortoise shell cat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-inactivation
http://messybeast.com/tricolours.htm
And white spots gets into interesting questions of embryonic cell differentiation http://messybeast.com/bicolours.htm
The "why are there large splotches of color with a calico cat compared to the much more mottled color pattern of a tortoise shell cat?"
http://messybeast.com/genetics-index.htm has a deep rabbit hole to go down (and that's for domestic cats... http://messybeast.com/wildcats-index.htm for the other cats).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klinefelter_syndrome
you can have a calico that's not plain female but it's through random rare dna quirks. anyway, that link above i'm sharing because it's interesting.
Similar looking to the KodKod
3 lb housecat can shred your face so fast that your arms would be late arriving.
do not underestimate cats.
Many years ago I met someone who had trained his two housecats to guard the house (I am not sure what that entails). He also had two great big dogs similarly trained. For my safety he would not let any of the animals near me when I visited, but he said the cats scared him more than the dogs did.
One might argue that a guard dog may be inherently easier to bribe with a treat, or cower with bluster. A trained attack cat is a far scarier proposition, given the speed, sharpness, and number of 'utility knives' they have at the ready. Also, the dog is likely to bluster and warn you. The cat, not so much. Just go for your face.
In my youth I witnessed a smallish adult puma (mountain lion) successfully harvest a nearly adult cow elk while I was hiding. I was also hunting, but focused on a bull elk somewhat further from me. It was astonishing the speed and total quantity of violence that an 80-100lb cat delivered in only a few seconds on nearly 500lbs of prey. The cat had an alomost perfect attack angle, and the combination of slash, grip, puncture, and throttle toppled the cow elk, and it ran out of resistance in very short order. I had not even seen the puma before the attack started, and I expect a trained attack housecat would practically appear out of nowhere - from behind a couch or a curtain or off the top of a refrigerator, and it would become an 'I need stitches' situation too easily.
Its probably a good thing that most housecats are pretty much impossible to train beyond 'use a litterbox' and 'stay off the kitchen counters', if even that.
> Its probably a good thing that most housecats are pretty much impossible to train beyond 'use a litterbox' and 'stay off the kitchen counters', if even that.
My cat is very well trained to have his harness put on, since he knows it means going outside. He'll jump on the stool and give me a "hurry up already" look and a meow if I don't move fast enough.
The first time I put it on was not so... inviting, though it was a great impression of a Tasmanian devil.
train is the wrong approach. you earn respect with them, and then they defend you.
lol moment was when we with a girlfriend playfully fell down on sofa, but the then master-of-house siberian 6kg cat considered that a threat to me.
he jumped ~3m claws open, smashed a desk top lamp, shredded the gfs' top and basically opened up her back before I could stop him.
> ~3m claws open
!!!
Those claws would weigh more than 6kg!
As a trail runner in mountain lion country, you’re scaring me . I’ve never seen one in person and I do hope to see one, one day. But not like you’ve described!
Yeah, do be careful though. This happened maybe 15 miles from where I live, back in 2018:
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/two-attacked-by-co...
Getting old now, so walking in the woods alone is something I don't do anymore, even though things are a lot more developed nearby.
And this is why you should always carry while hiking. That being said, the primary reason is two-legged predators.
My cousin, D. used to work in a National Park and had an international intern worker C. who decided to walk to work every morning through the park. D. had warned her to be cautious of mountain lions in that area. One morning D. was driving to work and saw her walking and not very far behind her a mountain lion making a 'stalk' approach and D. was able to get her attention and direct her attention to the mountain lion. C. hurried to D's car to ride the rest of the way to work and decided to accept the standing offer or a ride to work.
If you choose to trail run in mountain lion country, a bell may scare off bears, but may have the opposite effect for mountain lions. Stay aware, don't wear headphones or zone out on the trail.
I have seen three separate stalk and harvest events, the cow elk was my first and closest. My second was a wild burro colt. The the third was an old javelina (collared peccary). The second was by far the scariest, as the puma actually bit over the mouth and nose of the colt and suffocated it.
Fear is the correct emotion with regards to these wild animals. If you want to see one, the Arizona Sonora Desert Museum (really a zoo, in spite of the name) is the best and safest way I know about. I would never willingly try to find one in the wild unless i had a hunting permit for one, and I'm not inclined to do that.
Peoria has a wonderful habitat zoo, including a bobcat exhibit you can walk over on a fenced bridge. Good luck seeing the cats, though.
Cats all succumb to Churu lickables. They go nuts over the stuff!
Using a litter box is not training but instinct. It just works because it's the perfect cat toilet.
Some breeds like Bengals can actually be trained a bit to do things like fetch and roll over. But the common house cat not so much no.
I have Bengal cat. Absolute love
I don't think they'll hybridise - Leopardus has 36 Chromosomes, while all other cats have 38.
Oh wow, that is certainly something I missed in this story
> Wikipedia doesn't have a page dedicated to it yet.
Someone has been typing quickly...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilcayo_tiger_cat
"Also found in Whoppers From burger king"
Still needs some work!
Oh wow, they are really beautiful. I can tell they are perfect killing machines behind the cuteness.
Murder mittens.
I'd love to rub my nose on their belly. I don't care about my ears anyway
It's a sign of the times that I'd probably think "AI-generated" if I saw those images without any surrounding context.
(Maybe a few years ago, I might've thought "great Photoshop job" instead...)
>...and it's very cute
Great, so people will find a way to have it as their pet in horrible living conditions.
Only a matter of time at this point until someone breeds a domestic model
> And they said, ‘I don’t know! My grandpa called it tilcayo, so I call it tilcayo.
I'm curious if the locals knew it was distinct from other similar species, e.g. Oncilla/L. tigrinus, or if tilcayo is the locals' name for a broader set of 2+ visually similar species?
The wiki article on it says it was known to locals. I think the problem is that they kept describing tilcayo, and everyone who wasn't there but was listening said "Oh that sounds exactly like an oncilla. must be a second name or something."
Yeah that's what I'm curious about. "Known to locals" is very vague, and there are a lot of situations that could fit that description. The situation you mention is probably the most reasonable concrete interpretation, but my guess is that there was a game of telephone from locals -> scientists -> journalists -> wiki, and any nuance we could read into has been lost.
Update: The name tilcayo has been associated with oncilla by a bolivian government survey of fauna: https://repositorio.uasb.edu.bo/items/0e30ad14-971b-4d99-9aa...
Positively tiny. Really makes you wonder what else is still out there.
Also an amusing disjoint between it being called "tiger" cat but having leopard spots. At least the latin name is more on point.
Since this cat is Bolivian, they would be jaguar spots, rather than leopard ones.
The conquistadors referred to the jaguars as "tigers" - they certainly aren't lions - and that custom stuck around for long enough for this to become a tiger cat!
To add to the confusion, the genus is Leopardus. And leopards and jaguars are both Panthera.
Desperately trying to find a video with the original meowing sound...
> when the researchers compared complete genomes from 38 individuals across the Leopardus genus, the results showed that not only was L. tilcayo different from the other tiger cat species, but it had diverged from them around 1.4 million years ago—an evolutionary distance comparable to that between modern lions and extinct cave lions.
So around 2.8 million divergence-years. Going by wikipedia, the divergence between lions and cave lions is much less:
> Genetic analysis of ancient DNA has revealed that while closely related, it was a distinct species genetically isolated from the modern lion (Panthera leo), with the genetic divergence between the two species estimated at 500,000 to 1 million years ago.
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panthera_spelaea )
Theoretically, that's anywhere from 18% to 71% of the divergence. (The same page also notes that fossils of this species can be about 700,000 years old, which is philosophically interesting in combination with a divergence date of 500,000 years ago.) These are "comparable" in the sense that any two numbers can be compared, but it's not something you would usually say when one of the numbers is 50% larger than the other one. Even less so when it's 400% larger.
Awwwww pspspspsps kitty kitty ^_^
Wait, "pspspsps"? Where are you from? I thought only Greeks do "pspspsps".
My German grandmother did it, too.
No, it's somewhat common here in Brazil too.
I've heard that my whole life in the US. I think my dad taught it to me when I was really young, because he loves cats and our neighbors across the street had some outdoor cats.
Growing up in the Midwest it was always kitty kitty kitty kitty KITTY with the last one said at the top of your lungs.
No idea why it worked. It's terrifying.
Probably worked because the cats grew up with it too!
And Romanians.
Can confirm that non-greek Americans do this as well.
We do it in Italy too, afair (I'm a bit in doubt if we also do "tch tch tch")
It’s very common in the USA.
I think it has become common, but I never heard it until a few years ago. Now it's seemingly everywhere. When I was a kid, it was just "Here kitty kitty" or making a clicking noise with your tongue or something.
> making a clicking noise with your tongue or something
I still do that today, and it works better than pspspspsps. When I was young, if my cat was outside on the porch I could click my tongue and he'd come running from a half block away. What a good kitty he was.
We also do it in Spain, I think it is the international cat calling code.
We do it in America
pspspsps is biological , it's common noise to get a cats attention (in many places) because it stimulates their prey drive.
maybe the phoneme sequence of plosive -> sibilant is easy to discern from background noise?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plosive
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sibilant
I'm from America, and we do spspspsp.
We do it on the United Kingdom
Where in the UK? I've lived in the UK, in the Southeast, for 21 years and I never heard anyone say "pspsps".
I mean I don't doubt you, I just thought Brits just say "here kitty kitty" because that's what I usually see in movies and TV shows and so on.
It's funny what you miss when you're not embedded in the culture of a place since birth...
It's common. But I tend to find people in the south east of England barely talk to one another. :)
Oh yeah, that. But I'm a bloody foreigner so I get to speak to other bloody foreigners :)
I'm from Liverpool (70s/80s/90s), and of course I've heard "here kitty" but "pspsps" equally as common during my time in London (90s/00s), Cornwall(10s/20s), etc.
I always thought "pspsps" was a shortened form of "here pussy, pussy, pussy".
Australia also uses pspspsps - at least my part of it and my family and friends.
(and for some Australians some of the time, "ps ps fuckin ps, ya cunting cat!" of course. ;- ) )
"Cunting"! Not just "cunt" but "cunting"! I learned so much from this thread! :D
That's a worldwide thing, as well as other stupid human noises ;)
Tch tch tch
All of the US and some of Canada does pspspsps
wait where in Canada do they don't do pspspsps?
(is there a francophone different one?)
I'm just talking from my experience but francophone areas do it differently.
They do ttttt (tongue at top of mouth clicking), kissing noise (as a non frank lol), or 'minou minou minou' (mimicking meow) to summon cats
Well it seems everyone uses that! Thanks guys, I had no idea and this is so interesting to know. Now I wonder if someone has made some kind of study about it. I'll go looking.
A fun book is Bad Magic by Stephan Zielinski. Kind of an awkward one to find since it's a common title from a while back (2004) at the very start of urban fantasy... and the author didn't appear to have written anything else.
At one point in the book, several of the characters are in South America looking for a jaguar. They ask the synesthetic mage of their group (each character has a different magical background)...
https://archive.ph/cgMTM
On a related paw, Leopardus guigna (güiña) in Anticura goes by the cute name of kodkod:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kodkod#/media/File:Leopardus_g...
Very good news that a new species was discovered that's not a microbe or a fungus!
I wonder how many different species of cat are just called "cats" in the local language of wherever they're found?
We have just got normal house cats, that we call cats. They're very cuddly and they're great for keeping the mice under control.
Somewhere in the forests of deepest Borneo is a civilisation only recently reached by primitive Westerners, who don't know how to make fire and cook food using only sticks and rocks, and who cannot tell the difference between the blackish-blue berries around 15mm that are good to eat and the blueish-black berries around 16mm that are spectacularly poisonous, and only know things like how to make jet aircraft and rifles and the Rolleiflex 2.8FX camera.
Wandering around their village, high in the mountains, are cats the size of Galloway bulls, terrifying looking things, teeth the size of cucumbers.
"Oh those? Yes, we call those 'cats'. They're very cuddly, and they're great for keeping the feral hogs under control."
That would be a pretty big deal if found. There's only one known domesticated species of cat.
That many? Are you sure?
Wow, I expected it to be a DNA based split or something like that, but a genuinely new to science mammal is pretty cool!
Be careful, they are evolving, and everyone was worried that AI was taking over.
I don't understand how they're different species from others. By what definition of species are they different species, as opposed to (say) subspecies?
> A genetic analysis of 38 cats from South and Central America, including 26 individuals in the Leopardus tigrinus species complex, revealed that the tigrinus complex consists of five distinct species, including L. tilcayo, which is believed to have split off from other Leopardus species over 1.4 million years ago.[5] The study incorporated genetic material from previously unsampled tiger cats in the Guianas region, near where L. tigrinus was originally described in 1775. Jonas Lescroart, an evolutionary ecologist at the University of Antwerp, and co-lead author of the study called it "the most complete genetic study yet" of tiger cats.
-Wikipedia
That doesn't answer my question. What definition of species is that using?
The same that they use for the rest of the already known tiger cat species?! This one diverged from its closest relatives 1.3 million years ago. There are other tiger cat species that diverged later than that. Read the paper if you want to know more. You sound like there’s a >epsilon probability you, a random HN reader, found a gotcha in a paper by the experts of the field because you’re so smart that you know that the definition of "species" is sometimes fluid. Great job, I’m sure the authors don’t know that.
Could you maybe be a little bit more charitable than snarky? "Just read the paper" is not helpful when the paper is like 50 pages. It's not like I know what makes the other cats different species either. Nobody is trying to "gotcha" the researchers here, I'm just trying to understand what makes the cats a different species vs. a subspecies. We all know the definitions are fluid and I've heard of a couple in the past but I've never heard of one that solely looks at DNA divergence, so I'm pretty clueless and trying to learn something here. If you know the answer, this is not the way to share it.
Typically they’ll draw a species boundary if two individuals from the two distributions can not create a sustainably procreating line of descendants.
So either they can’t have kids, or their kids can’t have kids.
There are probably other rubrics but that’s the one I’m familiar with.
In this case I think I read that this animal has a different chromosome count than its siblings? Which would make reproduction basically impossible
Oh wow, chromosome difference is the kind of thing I was looking for, that's amazing. Thanks!
Any cat species that I was not aware of can be accurately documented as a zero-day "my beloved".
Beautiful. Can't believe how mini and colorful.
About seemingly nice cats… Anyone remember Pinky the cat?
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/in1ANEEba2s
The first good news in 100 years
It always surprises me when people discover new animal species. These little kittens look very cute.
That's a good looking kitty!
A bunch of Pokémon playing cat ladies out there goes «Gotta catch’em all!»
It will turn out to be a domestic cat that crossbred with some wild cat species. :D
I for one welcome our new feline Overlords.
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They still have widespread international distribution.
Personally I thought the internet would have been a bigger threat to their readership.
This looks like AI generated
Babe, wake up! New cat just dropped!